Please take the - FAKENESS - OUT of the Sawubona Music JAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Billy Winslow on June 16, 2009 at 8:19pm

There is known one more entitled to an opinion than you. You have been there from the start of the project and have contributed 110%... Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding about what other people are doing with this site.

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Permalink Reply by Carsten Trotzkowski on June 17, 2009 at 12:45am

Yes there is one who is fully entitled, but he remains silent on those questions....

...though I offered direct thought exchange more than once.
Last year we did several times, but suddenly there was silence.

And we know another "110%-contributor" who has chosen to fall into complete disappointed silence for the same reason.

Both of us were asked our opinion on a new Music Factory alpha version, so we offered a Telco 'cause there was lots to say - this offer now is five weeks old....

I'd still like to add one little word to your last sentence: "what SOME other people are doing with this site". At least we know friends who do the right things with a right mind, and this is holdig me back from resigning as well.

=> You now might know why it had to be Hard Hop <=

:-) Carsten (-:

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Permalink Reply by Lucky Thobela on June 18, 2009 at 11:23am

Sawubona Carsten and all of you

i can feel the fire, it's so interesting to be in the journey with so many creative friends.

the step starts with the first one, and theirs tomorrow which we all not sure what may bring, only hope makes us reap what we have sore over the time that we have put our mind in to it.

in South Africa it's a youth month. in our journey we always had hope for change , our elders had hope to see, the up coming new generation with better understanding in global interests.

i am a global citizen with open mind :--)))) (sum times) :---)))))

cool regards to all.

Lucky Thobela

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Permalink Reply by Carsten Trotzkowski on June 18, 2009 at 7:43pm

Moin Lucky,

and thank you so much for your words of hope. It is certainly evidence that many people in South Africa have a great positiveness that is suitable to make life easier even when it's getting hard.

As long as I am trying to change my mind a little bit towards your great attitude, I still cannot keep silent if people who have invested hundreds of spare-time hours, who have organized V.I.P's and great projects and music, get frustrated and fall off - as far as I can see, simply because of a lack of communication, and a lack of guidelines and definitions. But of course I don't see the complete picture...

Yet apart from those dark clouds:

Any ideas how we could follow Eileen's suggestions, how we could go far beyond remixing and re-producing, making things really together, so we EuropAmericAsians can learn how African Music really works?

:-) Carsten (-:

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Permalink Reply by Brian McDonald on June 23, 2009 at 4:58pm

Giving from the spirit selflessly can be seen as an embodiment of truth, each of us lives in our streams, converging, joining, merging with each other. Each of the discussion points in this thread have valuable points of view, thank you EES for speaking from your heart and opening this conversation.

When we back out from the earth and look at ourselves from a vantage point far from this small but precious mote of dust, we are, at our best, across the expanse of time, each of us African. Born from the cradle of humanity, reaching out desperately, sometimes praying, sometimes screaming, sometimes joyously singing, sometimes crying, in our efforts to talk back to the universe that we seem to have been born within.

So, what does this mean to this project called Sawubona, what is the intent, what are the results? The human connections are gift to each of us. When we pare everything away, it is the giving, the working together even in a stilted technology setting and dispersed minds across time and distance of miles. But EES, I take your meaning to heart. I would not stop what is growing here, though, after thinking and pondering your intentions, it seems some care could be taken to also provide guidance around the areas of music that seem underrepresented in the collaboration so far.

Do you have some ideas on how to bring in these "voices"? Perhaps we could all reach out in our communities, wherever we live in the world, to seek out musicians and poets in our own settings that have recent African cultural identity and heritage. Though each of us are truly from the same African cradle of humanity and produce our own messages and music, this reaching out to hearts with recent African lineage wherever they live in the world would seriously enrich this collaboration.

There seems to be something more here, a sapling that has just come up through the barren ground. It survives easily the trappings of self promotion by a few selfish folks and the distance set by time delays and geographical dispersion. For some, simple motivation to contribute in a small way to a good cause begun by others can result in new ideas and music. And of course the caretakers, keepers of the flame, so to speak - the larger effort by the initiators and maintainers doing the care and feeding of the project day in and day out; this growth is beautiful and has great worth.

Carsten, you speak of some poignant points and specifics. Billy, you are thinking most universal as always, peace and understanding has such an intrinsic power. EES, you speak about the heart of a nation in time and of ensuring the deep sentiment and core of African music that is under-represented under the precious intentions of the Sawubona title. Your passion is undeniable and you have a deep understanding of driving to the heart of where the true sentiment and meaning comes from and have identified layers of the project that at first glance, seem to be in conflict with what many think should be driving the collaboration and output of the project.

The fact that you all care so deeply about this, in itself is a wonderful thing that is happening here. Your words, and your intentions are a great music as well.

I feel fortunate to listen to feeling in your words, each of you, so personally I thank you so much for your passion and contributions in melody, harmony, words and heart. I also will reiterate Lucky's words, as they mirror the depths of what I feel about this meeting of minds and spirits through music and what it will become as the sapling grows to become a tree, and hopefully many trees in years to come:
Lucky's words: "i believe with all our contribution that we passing it on, we are really creating a better world for all of us."

Peace,
Brian

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Permalink Reply by Carsten Trotzkowski on June 27, 2009 at 1:03am

Moin, Brian,

to my eye your words are a true conclusion on everything that was said here - thank you for seeking for intergration of all the standpoints that came from diversity, and for reaching out for the highest level. It is very important to know there are people in the world who are truely investigating integration, for if we really want to fight Apartheid, it will be our mission to not only sing about torn down walls of the past, but to LIVE integration in today's life, to live like being the Good Example for others.

Only one last issue still is breaking faith somehow. While I agree we already have made some important steps here, and maybe even have started to make our world better like Lucky said, for me it is still important to look ahead at the things to come.

Yet that view is still somehow blocked by some facts I already wrote about:

Missing goals, missing direction, missing leadership.

Maybe I'm asking to much, or too early (indeed asking it over for more than one year now....) - but still: Where are we standing today?

The only community-task-related blog entry on main page is asking for some more versions of the Sawubona songs. But since there is only few weeks left till deadline, it would be important to know what is really needed, simply: What type of audience will be target for our "product".

If we had a decision (any!), this whole discussion would have been superfluous, and we would now know what kind of music should be made. I believe it's too late now to add just "any" other song, regardless of style and making, we could achieve much better results if we startet to focus our creative workforce on a defined aim.

But what is worse - the longer that Dieter is not responding on any of these discussions, I can feel, see and hear uncertainty rising within the community and myself - if the things we did have not been in vain to reach the original goals of this project - to contribute to funds raising (in a direct or indirect way), and to let worldwide collaboration grow sustainably. If it might not be diverse products of community work to make it into the broad, but maybe only "some" individual pro productions out of a sudden, limited to only a very narrow style and taste...

If it was already decided, for example, that the Sawubona CD should be - say - a Jazz CD (indeed we found one interview in the videos here, where it is clearly said that Jazz is the most preferred and suitable music style to transport the lyrics of Sawubona), I simply would judge it unfair to ask contributors for "any" new versions, for they would surely be produced to scrap....

While observing some irritations also of other participants, while being myself someone who has asked so many others to contribute and cooperate, I simply feel responsible to raise these questions here - on the risk of causing trouble somehow - but I simply feel some clear directions have been delayed for too long, and the whole of this discussion I count as evidence for this - as long as this it not refuted (which I still really wish it will be!).

Please excuse me for keeping the fire up...

:-) Carsten (-:

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Permalink Reply by Eileen van Zyl on June 17, 2009 at 7:46am

I am afraid I have to take some offense here...I am also 100% South African and just because I am no Kwaito or township pantsula jammer doesn't make me less of a South African artist. I for one appreciate the effort of my fellow - if international musicians.
Ever heard of fusion?
These people are coming together to help US. They dont have to give a damn about us or our music or whatever but here they are, from all over the world doing their best to help US. Shouldn't we at least show a bit of gratitude? If they dont know true SA music - why not a bit of education?
I for one am all for fusing different music styles...they all have to come together at the end to form a product with a wide market in order to sell it...I am not so sure that pure South African music will have such a wide international appeal. Sweeten the deal a bit by dressing it up in terms that can be internationally understood.

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Permalink Reply by EES on June 17, 2009 at 11:02am

Aweee...fellow South African,
yes-ja,..i have NO problem, with fusing Music...if you listen to all 8 aulbums of mine you will definatly notice that!
I also really appreciate what this project is doing for US, - my only concern is HOW it is marketed and the WAY they want to bring it out! it is because i live abbroad - i see the FAKE and NOT real image people have of our Home, and that is what frustrates me ...they are not showing the REAL AFRICA, and when a project like this is trying to use the AFRICAN "image" in the different way, especially with MUSIC! then i just felt I had to speak my mind, and find out what is really happeing here, that is ALL!
Being in the music industry and pushing african music in Europe, these projects (and what their outcome might be - or how they are aimed) mean a little bit more to me!
anyways..nou jy virstaan miskien bikkie better!
sharp, sharp!

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Permalink Reply by Eileen van Zyl on June 18, 2009 at 7:26am

Ek verstaan al te goed wat jy bedoel...en wat van ons Afrikaanse musiek? tel dit nie ook as die klanke van Afrika nie?

It might be a good idea to educate our listeners a bit. On this platform we are mostly muso's so the education will be a bit easier ;-)

Eileen

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Permalink Reply by philo ikonya on June 17, 2009 at 10:37am

Peace na Respect EES,

Don't get you wrong but believe that all MUSIC is born in Africa.. including Reggae but I know what you mean...

Let the fusion be...?

Philo

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Permalink Reply by philo ikonya on June 17, 2009 at 11:01am

Hi All!

I hit upon this discussion and had not read all other comments before I replied. It does not matter... the reply was from my mind and heart. I hear where the comment may be coming from... but I know that ultimately we must be open to being to survive as being.. I am amazed to see Eillen Van Zyl's comment on fusion.. which I had not read before I wrote.. Fusion, fusion, fusion.. I probably surprise some by claiming all music for Africa... but many share the idea.. and rhythm and all that.. Let us be open to change/fusion. We cannot be all beauty, all truth, all goodness...all without others and where they are coming from... We need to be inclusive and rejoice when others learn a word of our own language... Sawubona...... alive to being... open to being....dynamic... able to hear others.. all of them.. including you...peace na respect EES

Philo

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Permalink Reply by Eileen van Zyl on June 18, 2009 at 7:23am

Thank you Philo. Imagine being able to unite the WORLD through Music! Awesome!

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